The Austro-Hungarian Empire captured a very large number of Mosin Nagant rifles from Russian forces during World War One. They decided as early as November 1914 to convert many of these rifles to the 8x50mm Mannlicher cartridge (as used in the M95 Mannlicher rifles of the Austrian and Hungarian forces) and put them back into service as second line weapons. When captured Russian ammunition was available many Mosins were also used as-is, but hundreds of thousands were put through the conversion process. It was originally intended to be a reboring to 8mm, but ended up being a simple rechambering for 8×50, leaving the barrels in 7.62mm and accepting the increased pressure from squeezing 8mm bullets down to that diameter.
Conversion works was done by OEWG (Steyr) and AZF (the main Austrian artillery workshop) as well as four smaller private enterprises. In addition to the rechambering, they were generally fitted with M95 style sling hardware and had their rear sights remarked to schritt increments. Apparently many more rifles were captured than bayonets, as copies of the standard Mosin bayonet were made for these rifles in Austrian service. Lastly, a large number of stripper clips were made which fitted 8x50mm ammunition in the Mosin clip guide – I have never seen one of these, but large production is documented.
Three truly forgotten weapons in a row.
Two I had ever heard of.
That is what I come here for.
There is a marking on the visible portion of the connector/guide rod that has an A on it. It is possible this is an Austrian marking denoting the conversion?
The Austrians use “Ö” as the first letter of their nation, so the “A” means something else. Probably not “Anschluss” or “Adolf”, either.
Possibly “Adaptiertes” (to the 8×50 ammunition); to distinguished them from those which had not been rechambered.
After WWII, some Arisaka bring backs were converted by the owners to fire .30-06. At least one of these was originally in 6.5×50 and simply rechambered. The owner reported excellent accuracy, but brutal recoil. The technical staff at American Rifleman evaluated the rifle and found that the Arisaka handled the pressure increase very well. This led P. O. Ackley to conduct destruction tests on many different military rifles to determine the comparative durability of the different actions. The Arisaka scored very highly in his testing. He documented all the rifles and loads used in one of his books.
The simplest and easiest conversion of the 6.5 x 50 Arisaka is to 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser. A simple rechambering job with no other modifications.
A slightly more extensive upgrade is to rebore to .30 caliber and rechamber to 7.62 x 51mm aka .308 Winchester. Reboring and rerifling the .256in to .308, and then rechambering to .308 Winchester neatly “cleans up” the barrel and chamber as the 6.5 x 50 is just enough smaller than .308 in all dimensions to make this feasible.
The bolt face, extractor and etc. require no modification, as the 6.5 x 50 rim is .471in diameter, vs. .470in for .308, with the same rim thickness.
As stated, the Arisaka has one of the strongest Mauser-pattern bolt actions ever made. And the “drum” type safety at its rear end is one of the simplest to operate of any bolt-action rifle, and requires no alteration to allow for a telescopic sight.
A 6.5 x 50mm Arisaka action altered to .308 Winchester is one of the great overlooked conversions from military to sporting or utility rifle, IMPO.
clear ether
eon
Why not 260 Rem ?
“(…)260 Rem ?”
.260 Remington appeared in 1997.
The old timers did a lot of things that more enlightened people would probably avoid doing, like firing a .30 caliber projectile down a 6.5 bore…
At the same time, they were also a lot more pragmatic than today’s set of idjit types. At least, about some things…
Anyone considering building anywhere in the mountain West might want to consider asking this question about their proposed home site: “Why didn’t they build here…?”
There is a video on youtube iirc where somebody mistakenly fired 9mm parabellum in 7.62 Mauser broomhandle, and it didnt (even) explode.
Ian, I seem to remember you doing a couple videos on a Bannerman Mosin/Nagant rechambered for 30-06 and even shooting it.
People are missing the point that even after the rechambering, the Austrianised Mosins would still shoot Russian 7.63×54 ammunition just fine. The rim and base of each is basically the same. So if 7.62 was available they used it, and if not then shoot the standard Austrian ammunition.
No second supply chain or manufacturing plant change required.
Austrian 8×50 rifles already shoot 7.62x54r adequately, so again use the captured stuff if you have it.
Well, the OLD model 7.62x54R (rounded shoulder) casing was actually modelled after Austrian M88 casing, so the lower part is +/- the same. It is the Soviet post-1930 7.62x54R casing (sharp shoulder) that is different.
Now, I’m not a reloader and do not know all these numbers by heart, but as far as I remember the Russian M91 was .311-.312 diameter, right? And the 8 mm Austrian bullet is actually .320 (8x51R) -.329 (8 x 56R). So the difference was only .008 inch, being .2 mm, exactly half of the difference stated by Ian. The numerals stated in round names are commonly widely different from the actual dimensions – just take .32 S&W and .32 ACP… Or .38 Spl and .357 Mag for that matter
If I remember correctly, the Austro-Hungarian “schritt” was actually a double pace, so it was equal more or less to _two_ Russian arshins. Which makes sense looking at the sights running up to 600. Otherwise there would be no need to do this extra work, especially for rear echelon troops not expected to excel in marksmanship.
Thanks for fathoming out that conversion
Can the 7.62R safety be shot out of a Austrian 8×50 rifles?
Somethings can be done, but should they be done is another question?
If it’s safe to do so it will save me some money.
Austrian 8×50 rifles already shoot 7.62x54r adequately, so again use the captured stuff if you have it.
Rm
Can the 7.62R safetly be shot out of a Austrian 8×50 rifles?
Somethings can be done, but should they be done is another question?
If it’s safe to do so it will save me some money.
Austrian 8×50 rifles already shoot 7.62x54r adequately, so again use the captured stuff if you have it.
Rm
1970s Soviet surplus 7.62x54R has safely been shot out of my Austrian 8×50 rifles by me.
YMMV and you’re on your own, I don’t know the condition of your rifles or the loading of your ammunition.