ZB-26 Available from Morphys here:
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_N__UTTERLY_FANTASTIC_CONDITION_WWII_GERMAN_NAZI_P-LOT655878.aspx
Today John Keene and I are comparing two light machine guns: the Czech ZB-26 and the British Bren. Of course, the Bren is a development of the ZB, so there are a great many similarities between the two. The question is which one would we prefer to have? The ZB in this example is an absolutely gorgeous Czech-made gun that was taken into German service in World War Two and waffenamt marked. The Bren is an early MkI with a MkIII barrel fitted. What do you think? Collectibility or practical shooting qualities?
In a fight, give me the ZB.
Loading up magazines with 7.9 x 57 is a Hell of a lot simpler than loading them with 0.303in, because there is no fiddling to avoid getting rims in the wrong positions.
Feeding is more reliable with the ZB, again because no rims involved.
The British Army left the Besa in 7.9 x 57. Why they couldn’t have done the same to the Bren, or just rechambered everything including the SMLE and No. 4 to 0.303in Magnum starting in 1919 is one of those stupid decisions that will probably never be satisfactorily explained.
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eon
That being said you can have BREN https://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/great-britain-machineguns/bren-eng/ using rimless cartridge
…InglisCo in Canada produced a number of Bren guns in 7,92 Mauser caliber for China.
When the UK has jointed the NATO in 1954, it solved the problem of the light machine gun in new standard caliber (7,62×51 NATO)by simple adaption of the Bren to the new cartridge…
That is NOT a Czech crest on the ZB26.
It is the Carlist crest of Spain, for whom the gun was originally produced in 7x57mm. This gun remained undelivered when the Brno factory was occupied by the Germans. Because the German army refused to allocate its standard arms to equip the Waffen SS, the SS seized the captured Czech inventory, and helped themselves. The original barrel in this ZB26 was exchanged for a spare chambered in 7.9x57mm–which is why the barrel in this gun has a lined-out number in addition to a matching number added at the factory.
In the early part of the war, many SS formations were equipped almost exclusively with Czech small arms, notably VZ24s, ZB26s, ZB30s, and ZB37s.
M
I would be temped by the Stoner 63 Bren
I question the logic of a tank machine gun or support machine gun in 5.56 x 45mm.
Yes, I had doubts about the FN Minimi/M249 right from the start. Also the CETME Ameli, which seemed to be designed more for a 007 movie than actual field conditions.
I could see some logic in the CIS/ST Kinetics Ultimax 100 and the IWI Negev, being intended mainly for SpecOps units that had to “travel light” and often deploy by air.
But mostly, I’ve always believed that a support MG needs to be able to reach out and hit further than a 5.56mm anything. And it’s best mounted on a proper tripod and run by a properly-trained MG team.
5.56mm LMGs just aren’t up to the job, no matter how cleverly they are designed as “multitools”.
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eon
I question a lot of things about the whole concept of the Squad Automatic Weapon vs. the General Purpose Machine Gun.
We got the M249 mostly because they thought it was a good idea, and because the M60 just wasn’t cutting the mustard in that role. After having had the things for a few years, and being a guy who trained the gunners, my own opinion is that the M249 and that entire class of belt-fed individual weapon-caliber weapons are of questionable value.
OK, it’s great to be able to blast out huge amounts of individual weapon-caliber belt-fed goodness, but on the whole? Why? What does that do better than the full-house MG, other than represent lighter weight per round?
When you have the tactical need for a machinegun, you generally need the penetration and range of an actual full-house MG, not some half-ass compromise meant to make it easy to control an individual weapon on full-auto.
As such, the AR/SAW/LMG in an individual weapon caliber just does not make a hell of a lot of sense to me. I think you’d be much better off procuring something like a modernized product-improved MG42 that could actually do reasonably well as something the squad carried and fired off a bipod for support, and which could easily transition to doing the medium machinegun role off a tripod, something else you would need to drastically improve.
Of course, I suspect a lot of this stuff is about to drastically change under the weight of the drone, but as it stands during the transition, I remain dubious of the value of the individual weapon-caliber support MG at the squad level.
I can see a need for them with SOCOM missions. Maybe. I’m not an “operator”, so all I know of that world is second-hand stuff I’ve picked up, and I could certainly see the utility for close-in belt-fed firepower for some of their missions. The majority of what line soldiers do in combat, however? They really need to just bite the bullet, and carry a real full-size MG.
I agree 5.56mm Lmgs are not up to the job. Bells and whistles, C02 even, he he, aside.
Co2 cartridges… Bike bumps, Co2 airguns… Watched a video then some American – Idaho… Anyway reckoned you should piss in De isle – Poured water in, seemed to; do the same thing. Reckon Co2 could supress and cool, he reckoned the oxygen in the silencer helped the noise.
C02 canisters cheap, are we missing a trick, barrel cooling etc? No you may say? But what! If!! It could really make a difference!!! They exist, infront of us…
I say this meaning, say you wack on a new barrel on Gpmg, Yank – M240 is it, what if it bust a wee Co2 cartridge… Cool it. We are doing it, anyway – The barrel thing. Has anyone tried? See if it helps, Bren gun in 7.62 Nato who wouldn’t want that, but imagine! What if you could fire it a bit longer, by a Soda stream, cartridge. Should try it.
“(…)bust a wee Co2 cartridge… Cool it. We are doing it, anyway – The barrel thing. Has anyone tried?”
Somewhat similar, but with spraying liquid rather than using decompression of gas can be found inside 2М-3 https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/ukrainian-army-mounting-1953-soviet-naval-2m-3-turret-on-flat-bed-kamaz-trucks The guns are air-cooled but cooled using a water hose during sustained fire. or more precisely during reloading water was pumped through breech for no less than 15 seconds.
No the oxygen made the noise worse – Co2. Good good for plants, global warming etc, ynow the wee metal canisters I bought a bike tyre pump… Got hundreds not used one, don’t even have a bike now.
Oh God, not again.
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eon
I doubt it’d work well. I had a CO2 rifle as a kid. Sometimes it’d leak a whole cartridge in a couple seconds. Frost would form for a few seconds is all.If we’re talking serious heat, you’d need to pack big canisters. One more thing to lug and lose
Might not, maybe you are right.
This incoherent CO2 stuff is an invasion of AI-generated gibberish.
M
No, PDB isn’t an AI. He’s an all-natural troll.
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eon
You have to learn to appreciate his unique stream of consciousness.
I’d appreciate it more if he made sense once in a while instead of being in permanent John Kerry “Lookamee!!” Mode.
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eon
I did think of a Sterling SMG the other day (Someone actually mentioned a gun in decent way in a newspaper – Oddly enough, I didn’t comment, at all; as oppose 1,000 times, suppose I felt it would be rude doing so without “knowing” said folk) but the thought did cross me, if you got a Webley Fosbery type cylinder, and used it as a chamber for said barrel. And made the barrel act long recoilish, with said cylinder attached; could you get it to fire twice before the bolt cycled. Still thinking about it now to be honest. Not solved it, but far I have managed, after pondering various positions. An offset mount to the cylinder opposite the mag well “And I did start with the cylinder axis, in the middle, then moved the barrel right left, then the cylinder up down; but settled with that.” Point being the long recoil lark sees the barrel/cylinder chamber stay together after the first shot, for second. I have got partially further… In regards cal .224 Boz maybe, and trying to incorporate it with an obscure trellis action I once waffled about on here; but instead of using gas, it uses the barrel moving back. As you can imagine, I have become somewhat bogged down. But I would be lying if I said I wasn’t still thinking about it. As I say “Bogged down” not a brick wall. I can see a way, in away, to get a bit further – Into the, bog, hee!
One of the evergreen forgottenweapons dot com experiences is seeing two dozen plus comments on a post and clicking through expecting some rich vein of discourse only to find it’s just Pdb again.
Sorry about that, I do get your point; especially if you wasn’t used to it – Wasn’t intended as such, certainly not to impede other conversations, but it sort of… Suppose because I have been doing it for ages. Become a thing for me, exited, it isn’t a good thing for me incidentally as really what I should do is shut my trap and actually try to finish 1 of 1000 different blurt outs. Although, if I have a defence – it would probably, be that “It’s not my fault I get 1000’s of ideas” reading all your info for over a decade, I just can’t decide on any particular one, then I think of something else. But I do take your point and appologise, as stated above in relation to the newspaper article. Anyway, sorry.
Excited.
No need to apologize, gracious though it is; there’s no offense in hopping on here and Posting Through It. I’ve been an avid visitor here since before our host started doing videos and I could not count the number of times I’ve hit the jump on a topic with 43 comments to discover that 25 of those are you talking about shooting the Chinese in the nuts with burp guns, a topic which I understand is near to your heart.
Only because their is potentially alot of them… As “Oppose it is dear to my heart” it, isn’t Commie or otherwise. But. Cough. Sorry if it sounded, such. I appologise.
“It” That – is not near my heart, at all, only that they’d be more of them, probably. Anyway, I am sorry if it sounded thus.
I have never “Trolled” you once, ever. Ok I spent 36 hours in a row commenting to myself. But, nobody else was saying anything. And not because of me! Before someome chirps up. It was a sort of plow digger Nazi pistol. What to say.
Potato digger. Canadians… Beards.
Without long hair… Something “Wrong there, like Muslims. Father Ted; Priest chat. Gay bars etc.
I have never used chat cpt, for I fear I would blow it’s wee “mind” Co2 is cold isn’t it.
Then he needs a 90-day visit to St. E’s.
M
The easy solution is not “lookahim.” He is like the neighbor who sees UFO’s nightly. LCA: limited contact advised.
Look!!! A UFO. “Bit rude” It’s not a cloud, s’meh, anyway. All the best.
Catholics. Martin Luther had the right idea.
Anyway I rest my own case, simply by saying this “Do you know what? When I finally read an article about a gun in a positive way, in a national newspaper… I was absolutely, positively, sweating to say 1000 things all at once in a fecking row.” But I get your criticism for some of my conduct on here, and have taken it on board, and I apologise as it wasn’t badly intended – But, blah, blah, get it.
Anyhoo! End of blah, blah… Hee! Who wants to talk about my Sterling idea? I literally could go on all night, haa!
Eon do you think 5.56mm fired through a revolver chamber out of a Sterling length barrel, make it sort of perform like .224 Boz with the gas loss? Be cheaper… Etc.
I would appreciate your input “On that” rest of it work in progress, he he.
The author of the article in a British newspaper; stated, from use… The Sterling was handy – 2026 body armour, 5.56mm out the side; not big. It would lose power, but would it retain enough to be greater than .224 Boz do you think? Sir, thank you in advance.
The point would be that of the An94 but with body armour, at smg range.
“(…)An94(…)”
Unless intentional show of disdain w.r.t Nikonov: AN-94
Gaylord, Fokker…
So lose enough, to make it less 5.56mm and more .224 Boz – If so thats ideal; cheaper.
Fires two quick, as per AN94 but cheaper, Sterling. I am getting somewhere with the action, so I would appreciate your input with the correct cartridge. If feasible.
Clue about the action, as oppose the locking mech – It loads a cartridge into the cylinder on the return; it rotates, the next is fired – To start you probably have to cock it a few times “Not as straight forward as a fixed pin” But, avoid fancy machining – Cheap thus.
Everyone in the PLA has body armour now Eon, things change, perhaps, maybe stop thinking about more “Local” things, times change. Billion of them, as much money more or less tech. Not the 40’s Japs, who thought they were “It” tut.
Compton, Eon.
They will have billions billions of these drones we’ve all been hearing about in Ukraine… A fucking mini Luftwaffe.
“(…)billions billions of these drones(…)”
That would mean 1000000000000000000 example. Please provide reliable source supporting claim that PRC could manufactured such number of drones considered resources and manpower at their disposal.
Manpower is becoming less of a factor with so-called ‘dark factories’.Production totally automated. But making a billion drones, yeah that’s a reach
Robots making the wee… Robot things.
Could shoot some in nuts… You know body armour. “Sorry about that again Jian”
https://youtu.be/uXJaQY-l6bM?si=R0L8CdDzgDmCrOeX