Q&A 60: Early Automatic Pistols & More w/ “Fireplace Guy” – Len Antaris

Today I am speaking to Len Antaris of Historic Investments, aka “Fireplace Guy”. Len has a tremendous collection with an emphasis on unusual and prototype handguns, and he has been very generous in allowing me to film much of it for you over many years. So, I figured we should talk to him about some of the things you might be interested in his take on:

00:00 – Introduction
02:14 – Why are American Collectors so interested in Swiss Firearms?
04:21 – Why were early autoloading pistols so clunky compared to modern pistols?
07:32 – Your house is on fire, and you only have time to save one gun from your collection. Which one, and why?
Salvatore-Dormus: https://youtu.be/QGzb-0PJadI
Laumann & Schonberger-Laumann: https://youtu.be/AFhU3Dixvnk

10:11 – How did you get started collecting firearms and why a particular interest in early semi-auto handguns?
15:38 – Why have modern firearms have lost the finesse and finish of older guns?
18:34 – Top 3 guns to hang on the mantle above the fireplace?
20:33 – Most interesting technological dead end to come out of early self-loading pistol design?
Sosso: https://youtu.be/iO3ZAuiq35k
22:49 – Webley self-loader viable for wide-spread use in WW1?
Webley Model 1913: https://youtu.be/HSDygkzGQRo

25:12 – Were there any serious attempt at stocked revolvers for militaries after the early 1900’s?
25:27 – Thoughts on the Trejo Model 1 .22 auto pistol?
Trejo Model 1: https://youtu.be/8d-AQsHY1_c
26:30 – Why didn’t the Schwarzlose 1898 take off commercially despite it’s advanced features and good ergonomics?
Schwarzlose 1898: https://youtu.be/rYl0dQAJMh4

29:21 – How hard is it finding warlord pistols these days?
35:39 – What firearms are you seeking, or wish you could have for your collection?
36:53 – I’m starting to collect World War 2 military sidearms. But, I want to focus on the “not so common” military issue sidearms. What would you consider the top 3 “un-sung pistols” of World War 2?
41:15 – Favorite pistol to shoot / Do you shoot your collectible pistols?
43:26 – Which, if any, of the early semiauto pistols could be a (limited) success if it was brought back as a replica today?
48:18 – Will polymer pistols ever be collectible?
51:25 – Who are some early designers of semi-automatic handguns you think more people should know about?

17 Comments

  1. if it’s an old pistol that didn’t become mainstream produced, there’s a good reason for it – there’s always a good reason for it

    Great video overall, and I don’t even disagree with the conclusion about replicas, but this rationale is disappointing. Not only does this channel (in general) contain ample disproof / documentation of terrible reasons why firearms weren’t adopted – personal connections or animosity; manipulated trials, NIH syndrome, and other political skullduggery; requirements miscommunications, timing and other coincidences, company or inventor misfortunes unrelated to the product, etc. etc. – there are at least two contrary examples right here in this video!

    • Yes, true, but there have been lots of dead ends that were dead ends for good reasons. Simply not working good and reliably enough. But the story of a gun not adopted for other than technical reasons are the more memorable stories for the drama involved. a gun that did not work right or was too expensive to manufacture and was thusly discarded from trials is a rather boring occurence. But discarded for good reasons nonetheless.
      We humans just like a good story.

      • Of course! I’m a firm believer in technological progress and evolution, including the “creative destruction” of less-effective ideas and products.

        I wasn’t making an absolute “always” or “never” statement myself – just noting the absurdity of “there’s always a good reason for it” from the guy I would cite first and most if arguing against that point made by anyone else.

    • Good post Daweo, did not know Mauser had a semi-auto pre WW1. Seems like everyone was working on semi-auto rifles.

  2. “(…)I’m starting to collect World War 2 military sidearms. But, I want to focus on the “not so common” military issue sidearms. What would you consider the top 3 “un-sung pistols” of World War 2?(…)”
    One way might be looking for sidearms used by countries less-mentioned when describing said conflict, say Hungary (Frommer 37.M) or Norway (Colt Kongsberg) or Yugoslavia (Browning 1922)

    • Excellent choices to which I would add the Polish Vis35 Radom. While a variation of a JMB design it was is a very well made pistol. Pre occupation of course.

  3. I owe my obsession with Star, Astra, and Llama firearms to a video Ian did YEARS ago showcasing Ken’s books on Star and Astra. I own both and they are by far my most prized reference books. So, I really have both of these men to thank for my rather expensive and time-consuming hobby today. It was so awesome to see it all come full circle today.

  4. C96, Luger and maybe early Browning are the only early semi-autos that would ever work as commercial repros. Rental ranges would be a big target for shootable repros: Getting someone to drop 2000+ USD for a newly made Luger is unlikely, but getting 50+ people to drop $50(+ammo) to shoot a few mags through one seems doable.

  5. 36:53 – I’m starting to collect World War 2 military sidearms. But, I want to focus on the “not so common” military issue sidearms. What would you consider the top 3 “un-sung pistols” of World War 2?
    I’d say there’s a difference between “not so common” and “un-sung pistols”. There’s a lot of German pistols that are hard to find. US and British .38 revolvers are common, but unsung. Who cares about a 38 Special or 38 Enfield revolver? But S&W Victory revolvers were issued to rear area personnel, and 38 Enfield revolvers were British standard issue.
    43:26 – Which, if any, of the early semiauto pistols could be a (limited) success if it was brought back as a replica today?
    Manufacturing costs would be prohibitive. Lugerman makes 1907 US trials pistols from the original tech package, in 45 ACP, 10mm, and 40 S&W. $10K apiece. Expect 12-18 months for delivery.

  6. Great video. On the question of unsung early semi-automatic pistol designers I’ll put up Karl Krnka for a mention.

    • “Karl Krnka”
      Yes, man associated with Repetierpistole M.7 which was truly… international in terms of man working to get it done. It all start as design by Theodorović (Croatian) which was improved by Krnka (Czech) with development funded by Roth (Austrian) and actually produced in FÉG (Hungarian).
      Krnka beyond being gun-designer was also… lets’ call it gun-scientist, as his develop own taxonomy of automatic weapons (so-called Kaisertreu classification)

  7. 48:18 – Will polymer pistols ever be collectible?

    I would say that the Grendel pistols, pre-runners of the Kel-Tec line are going in that direction. The Grendel P-12 is an absolutely horrid pistol to shoot, and has the worst trigger ever. But the prices are still going up, and some Kel-Tec fans seek them out.

  8. I think all of us owe a huge debt of thanks to Mr. (Dr.?) Antaris, his collection, and his videogenic fireplace; without them FW would have been a much duller place, with many many of those forgotten weapons displayed to us only as still pictures and Mr. M’s deductions as to which pieces did what. So many items that I have only seen as poor photographs in old books have appeared here and satisfied my curiosity.

    I think Ferdinand Mannlicher deserves a strong second place after Browning, and if smokeless powder had arrived earlier he might have had much greater success. Certainly he held over 100 patents, including a viable-ish self-loading rifle in 1885!

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