Rhett Neumayer is a guy with some really interesting and innovative thoughts on small arms training and handling. He runs Demonstrated Concepts, offering training classes on a variety of different firearms. You can check out his web site here:
Today, he is going to teach me how to properly use a Shockwave-type shotgun – exactly the thing I got some notoriety for haranguing a Mossberg rep about at SHOT several years ago. To Rhett, this configuration offers a number of advantages (including not being NFA regulated and being smaller than a stocked gun) and his shooting technique overcomes its limitations while exploiting its advantages.
So…let’s see if I can get some shots on target without punching my teeth out!
Interesting, I can see now how the grip works and is effective. Might be a little confusing for a shooter who is used to standard grip and presentation of a rifle or pistol.
Also brings up cartridge selection, 12 gauge vs. 20 gauge or even .410. I’m referring to a Paul Harrel “meat target” presentation using a .410.
If you’ve been used to blading on a target your whole life, it’s really difficult to square up. Everytime I thought Ian had gotten it down, the next scene he’s blading & chickenwinging again – I’m sure it would take me the whole 2 day class to get it down.
Needs moar mini-shell.
In the original InRangeTV video you guys didn’t even use Shockwave/Raptorgrip that you were criticizing. Mossberg made claims specific to the Shockwave and you didn’t test it. Pretty weak after attacking that Shotshow lady. Better late than never to remedy it, though.
CQB conditions frequently require the support hand for other tasks, leaving you a hand and a half at best. A conventional shotgun can be awkward and a retention challenge, but better than a PGO (held at the end) because your firing hand is near the 1/3 point, and you can brace the stock between your armpit and body. A “bird’s head” PGO grip, designed to extend past 26″, is also nearly the opposite of optimum for resisting the force of recoil (unlike the completely different bird’s head grips on revolvers, or regular pistol grips).
Ian is a strong adult man and an experienced shooter, not disoriented by stress, yet still took some hits. “A can be just as good as B if you’re willing to put in the time learning all these elaborate workarounds” is just a roundabout way of saying “A is not as good as B”. The whole point of a shotgun is that any competent adult can pick one up and achieve decent results after a very basic introduction.
My first home-defense solution was to convert a Saiga 12 to a bullpup. Nowadays, ample commercial options (some even legal in ban states) plus braced pistols and PCCs make “this vs. an awkward 3ft shotgun” a false dichotomy / strawman, and the only reason left to resort to a PGO is to troll ATF.
Braces go away next month and PCCs are subject to the same regulations that ARs are in prohibitive environments.
I agree that the Shockwave and clones are dumb as hell, but not because they’re redundant.
I didn’t think braces were going away entirely, but I’m not intimately familiar with the brace regs and won’t argue that point.
There are, however, some PCCs that are OK in prohibitive environments – as, again, are several shotguns this size, fully shoulderable and non-NFA.
What’s yer point?
I thought I was clear and specific, but maybe I need to be more concise: I agree with Ian’s and Karl’s negative opinion of PGO shotguns from previous videos.
If someone wants to buy one as a toy (or political statement) that’s great, but any argument that these have practical advantages over many other defensive firearms depends on the listener being unfamiliar with the other alternatives.
What is the hardware on the pump handle?
Looks like two finger stops slotted into the M-LOK slots. One on the left, one on the right. Arisaka Defense, SLR Rifelworks and many others make ones like these. These make more sense to me than the pistolgrip handguards that used to be popular, but I have always found them awkward to pump actually. Those little “pins” sticking out should give better purchase and not alter the grip compared to a normal pump action handguard.
Where do you put the bayonet on it?
we had guns like this for boarding ships back in the early 90’s, based on mossberg 500’s because that was what we had. the armorer bought new stocks out of his own pocket and cut them down. same with barrels. everything got switched back before we got to port because the USN frowns on modifying the tools they give you.
we loaded them with beanbag rounds..again, because it’s what we had, and we didn’t want to put holes in the gofast boats we were boarding.
Sounds like a reasonable modification. Shotguns should have been issued like that for boarding. But try getting that through the bureaucracy in time before the phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watts range is introduced into general service.
I’m wondering if a pistol grip could be SLIGHTLY canted to the left or right, (according to the shooter) so the shooting hand does not come into play at all? Just sliding the grip side up the cheek instead of the bird’s head? (And by “canted” I mean the grip is off-center of the gun bore, but only slightly, maybe from 180 degree to 170 degree, more or less.)
Huh, that seems actually useable to do it this way. Makes me wonder if the desigenrs thought of shooting the birdhead grip with this technique or if they just engineered around the laws?
Remember when fw used to be smart and interesting?
I enjoy all these type of articles, and this is a new concept for an oldie like me as I learned to shoot 68 years ago. cheers
and yall say pistol grips are stupid and pointless
I let my SOF ego get in they way, 25+ year SOF(1st Bn and 1st SFG) and I use to think they where just range toys or at best a breaching tool. Then I did some research (The Worlds Fighting Shotguns by Thomas Swarengen) and chopping a shotgun into a Whipet Gun has been going on for decades. The criminals, lawmen, insurgents, rebels, guerrillas all have chopped and shortened the shotgun to make it easier to conceal, move with, and still deliver effective fire. The Recoil Strap adds better recoil control letting a person to do almost everything with it that a regular shotgun can do.
Running a stage
Shooting a round of American Skeet (clean)