The Vault

Unknown .30 carbine

Identified! This is a 1944 submachine gun designed by George Hyde.

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20 comments to Unknown .30 carbine

  • merp

    I believe Wikipedia has this rifle down as the Thompson Light Rifle, Auto-Ordnance’s bid for the M1 Carbine.

  • Cutaway

    Has anyone from the FW Team came to handle this weapon or was it just found on files?. Although intended as a light rifle, it came with an MG42 type barrel change but would be visible if an image of the right side was taken.

  • Tim H

    I think it is a French attempt to copy the Stg-44/45. I’ve heard very vague reference to it in some gun books. Other than its general appearance being similar to the Stg-44/45 guns and it being chambered in .30 carbine, I haave found little on this strange post-war early assault rifle.

  • obturator

    It’s not one of the CEAM .30 carbines. I’ve seen pictures, and those look much more like CETME/HK rifles, the later models could easily be mistaken for some sort of MP5 variant.

    The selector switch layout looks like it was taken from the thompson, not from the STG-44/45.

  • G

    I think I’ve seen some of its photos on sites in China. It’s described as “post-WW2 Europe Rifle Prototype”, a standardized rifle designed for every country in Europe to equip in case of a Soviet invasion.

  • TF

    It could be some other manufacturers version for the French 50`s test. In the Jean Huon`s Book of French assault rifles, there are various .30 shooting rifles from MAS and MAT, that has simillar features that is in the pictures rifle.

  • Zach Ferguson

    Looks german maybe a G3 predecessor stg.51 maybe?

  • Some details are very similar to the french MAT49 submachine gun.
    It’s certainly a french prototype.

  • lucky431

    Looks like the offspring that would result from Lewis Gun/Thompson M1A1 parentage.

  • Ja

    Anyone heard of an M-1 carbine prototype in the Sept 1974 Amer Rifleman article made by a Mr Ferguson of Hartford, CT, submitted by auto ordnance for the 1941 carbine trials ? It has a blowback top riding operating rod cover and a free floating barrel with a wood stock.

  • makarios

    On first sight it looks to me like a fotoshop product .
    Should i be wrong on that, it looks too large and too
    cumbersome for a rifle shooting the .30 Carb. ctg .
    Also,the .30 c. is not,by any standard,the ideal ctg for general issue on a cold war [east vs west ] scenario.
    The magazine well looks too large . The magazines are not M1 CARB. type,nor are they of a radically advanced design.
    Why would they abandon the combat proven,reliable and strong carbine action for which parts existed by the millions ,especially when they had general issue in mind.
    With very few feature changes the M1C could have been upgraded and ready for a second stint.
    Anyway it is a very interesting case .
    Where can i get more info ?

    • I don’t know why Hyde didn’t use existing M1 Carbine magazines in the design, especially considering that he had entered a design in the original M1 Carbine development trials. Perhaps he wanted to made a more durable magazine?

      I can assure you it is not a photoshopped set of images, because I had the original Aberdeen film prints in hand.

  • makarios

    Thank u for the immediate reply.Any blueprints available?
    Any more info? By the way , i like your site very much .

  • Unknowm

    Did Hyde help Auto-Ordnance in any way? All I know is that he designed the M2 Hyde SMG.

  • TRX

    I’m not seeing any breech locking mechanism here.

    The rifle appears to be mostly stamped steel; if it was blowback as well, it would have been much less expensive to make than an M1 Carbine.

  • Gavin Hill

    Did any one think the the person who desined and manufactured the wepon took all the best parts of the sub machine guns of that era ang threw them into one gun

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