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The Vault

Looking for Some 7.65mm Mannlicher Ammo…

Update! Thanks to some leads I got, I now have 200 rounds of ammo inbound; half Argentine surplus and half modern loads made from .32-20 brass (and some great resources for other odd calibers I’m sure I will be needing in the future). Thanks to everyone for your help and recommendations!

I recently acquired a really nice 1905 Steyr-Mannlicher pistol, and I’m really excited to try it out on the range – but I’m having a bit of trouble finding ammo. Normally for something like this I would just wait and watch, knowing that I would come across the right stuff eventually…but I’m a bit impatient with the Steyr. The pistol feels great in the hand, has a pretty good trigger, and I have a bunch of stripper clips for it. Most unexpected of all, I can actually operate the safety without breaking my firing grip (and I’m lefthanded!). If the pistol is as nice on the the range as it has proven to be in dry handling, I am totally going to hire someone to make a nice leather OWB holster so I can carry it.

Steyr Model 1905 - no ammo!

But…I need to get some 7.65mm Mannlicher ammo (possibly also called 7.63mm Mannlicher by some people) first and get it to the range. The most common ammo appears to be 1940s Argentine surplus, which is noted to have pretty hard primers. My pistol seems to have a healthy firing pin spring, so I would be willing to but a box of the Argentine to try, if I could find it. The next most common option is buying brass from Buffalo Arms, but they are out of stock, and probably won’t be producing another batch for months.

So…if anyone has factory-loaded ammo or reloadable brass they would be willing to sell (or know where I can find either one), please let me know! Thanks!

26 comments to Looking for Some 7.65mm Mannlicher Ammo…

    • Stewart

      Look up Cartridges of the world by Fred Barns and it will have the cartridge specs and the parent case so that you can make your own ammo. Much less expensive than buying antique stuff.
      Lee Inc. makes dies required, usually about $30 a set. Then order the parent brass from Startline, or any other maker of brass, sold at retail and bullets, powder and primers. Then it’s off to the races with an unlimited supply of ammo.
      Sincerely,
      Stewart.

  • Rizz

    Nice find, I really love the old Austrian automatics. Wish I get could one here in Britain.

  • Daweo

    Now you know why Ferdinand Mannlicher is sometimes described as “Austrian J.M.Browning”.
    You can buy ammo for this pistol here: http://www.ammo-one.com/7-63MannlicherPistol.html

  • Ian

    Not sure it would work, but maybe try making a case for it out of available 4.6x30mm brass.

    4.6x30mm brass dimensions, as relevant:

    Base diameter
    8.02 mm (0.316 in)

    Rim diameter
    8.00 mm (0.315 in)

    Rim thickness
    1.10 mm (0.043 in)

    Case length
    30.50 mm (1.201 in)

    7.63 mm Mannlicher case dimensions, as relevant:

    Base diameter
    .332 in (8.4 mm)

    Rim diameter
    .334 in (8.5 mm)

    Rim thickness
    .030 in (0.76 mm)

    Case length
    .84 in (21 mm)

    Cut the 4.6mm case down to 21mm, the Shoulder diameter of the 4.6mm is: 7.75 mm (0.305 in) the bullet diameter of the 7.63×25mm Mauser is: 7.86 mm (0.309 in) it’s Neck diameter is 8.46 mm (0.333 in) so the cut 4.6mm case wants to be about the diameter of the Mausers at 21mm in regards the Mannlichers bullet.

    I don’t much about reloading but it is the closest match in relevant brass sizes I could find, and you can get empties readily from Diamond K Brass apparently.

  • Bill Miller

    If you have access to a lathe they are easy to make.
    .32 Smith & Wesson long cases or .32 H&R or.327 Mag, turn the rim flush, recut the extracter groove, might not be nessecary, trim/shorten to .84″, drill or ream 5/16″ / .312″, my notes don’t give a depth.
    Reload with .32 S&W Short or .32 ACP dies with a taper crimp.
    I can’t remember which shell holder for sure, but I think .32 ACP is the one.
    .32 S&W Short loads should be safe. I can’t find my reloading notes for this round. Trail Boss powder should be a safe powder to start with.
    Good luck.
    Bill.

  • Earl Liew

    I was going to say try http://www.ammo-one.com, but Daweo beat me to it. It looks as if they have what you need available, but at the hefty cost of $4.75 per round, plus a possible delay in shipping due to the winter weather in Maine.

    Other than that, the numerous suggestions for making your own might be a better way to go.

  • Captain Twit

    Try this guy, comes highly recommended:
    http://beaconbrass.com/products/

  • Jamezb

    I for one cannot wait to see how that beautiful pistol shoots!

    • Stewart

      Hi again;
      It shoots hard because the grip is so low compared the bore axis. I mean relatively speaking, given the weight of the pistol and modest power of the cartridge.
      It tends to twist in one’s hand and if you have weak wrists, it hurts after some few rounds.
      Secondly, it will give you “Hammer bites” on the web of hand between thumb and trigger finger if you slide your hand up the grip to better control it.

  • Jamezb

    I often daydream that someday soon the technology will exist as to where a company could “scan” obsolete guns part-by part, adjust the design for a similar-sized modern caliber, and produce a reasonably priced one-off or short run from modern steels by 3D metal printing or computer machining.
    I hope that such technology develops soon enough for us to all get to reap the rewards.

    • Poshboy

      I have had this dream for years as well. And with the introduction of good-quality 3D printing machines, the right software, and the right metal stock for the printer–and some old fashioned craftsmanship–I think that day is not far away.

      There are a slew of vintage guns–such as the M1907 Steyr-Roth–that I would love to have, but in a common caliber. I’d also love to craft some vintage Title 3 stuff as well, but US law has to first change…

      • Stewart

        Hi again;
        They do have the technology to do that, more or less.
        The item can be measured by a Laser inferometer and the data input to a CNC Machine. The machine can make the parts you need. Care full editing could change some minor dimensions like the caliber and or chamber shape, but only so much.
        How ever, it is so much easier to either rent a chamber reamer to cut a new chamber to a more modern cartridge. Cost about $40.00.
        Or to use some existing brass to manufacture like new ammo. Most chambers on old guns have a great deal of slop in them. It was just a fact of life back then. I would suggest that you mike the case, or cast the chamber and then search Barn’s “Cartridges of the World” for a suitable “parent” cartridge to make your new cases out of.
        Although I have no clue what your chamber is like, I suspect that there are any number of cases on the market to start with. Like the .30 Carbine? Measure your chamber first. Find out what the new case was supposed to look like and go from there with loads that duplicate the factory ballistics.

    • Kirk

      That’s a nice idea, but in the real world, things aren’t that simple.

      Scale up a design meant for one caliber, and you wind up with things going wrong due to differences in requirements for timing, fit, and a whole slough of other issues. That’s why Glock has had so much trouble with their .40S&W pistols, over the years, and why the fixes meant for the .40 screwed up the pistol when applied to the 9mm versions.

      There are very few automatic designs that lend themselves willy-nilly to caliber adaptation. Take a look at the 10mm Colt Delta Elites, for example: A gun that was quite durable and effective in .45 ACP turned out to have major durability problems when adapted to 10mm. A good friend of mine is who turned me on to 10mm as a caliber, and his frustration with the BREN TEN not being successfully produced led him into the Delta Elite direction. His first two guns literally beat themselves to death, due to a whole host of issues. It took a couple of years before Colt finally figured out all the details, and those guns became reliable. Meanwhile, early adopters made a couple of gunsmiths wealthy getting their pistols to work. When Glock finally came out with the G20, my friend dropped his Deltas, and never looked back.

  • a bit of OT: what’s up with the forum? I keep getting error
    “Connection Problems
    Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later. “

  • Daweo

    When you get ammo for this pistol, do wood penetration tests if you can. I’m interesting in results of comparison with other blow-back pistol ammo.

    • Stewart

      Hi all.
      Forget wood penetration tests. They are more dependent on bullet type than anything else. If you really want to know what the power of your gun is, shoot it over a chronograph and weigh the bullets. Compute the energy, because when all else is said and done, that is what you have to do work damaging the target.
      Take two rounds, one a frangible projectile like Glasser, or Magsafe, the second a FMJ round nose like came out of your pistol when new. The Frangible bullet has maybe twice the energy and is a sure man stopper when placed in the Thoracic cavity. The other will perforate four to five times as many boards, but is most unlikely to create a fatal wound given a less than perfect hit.
      Lastly, with small bore weak cartridges like yours, you should use either hard cast Kieth style slugs or FMJ bullets to guarantee deep penetration to vital parts of the anatomy and then learn to shoot it well enough that you put the bullets in the right spot to work.

  • Geoffrey

    Check out Reed’s Ammo. I glanced briefly at his handgun caliber selection and didn’t see any, but he frequently has other unusual calibers available. Shoot him an email. Here is his website: http://shop.reedsammo.com/Pistol-Ammunition_c2.htm
    He’s a great guy to do business with and I use his Tokarev JHP as my self defense load in my Romy.

  • Jacob Morgan

    If nothing pans out, as a last resort you could try Bob Hayley 940-888-3352. He specializes in small-lot construction of obsolete ammo.

  • Richard Brown

    Google/yahoo is your friend. Read your post last night and googled some at $4.odd a cartridge.

    for example: http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11218408/

    http://www.ammo-one.com/7-63MannlicherPistol.html $4.75 a cartridge

    http://www.pmulcahy.com/ammunition/pistol_revolver_smg_rounds.htm ref case to 7.63 mauser

    http://gadcustomcartridges.com/#pistol custom cartridge maker.

    RHB

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